BREXIT

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BREXIT

Post by Justin076 on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Greetings!

Well the highly anticipated referendum is currently on-going in the United Kingdom. Polls have closed and votes are being counted.

LIVE RESULTS: http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

So as of now the leave side maintains a small lead, although it has been back and fourth all night. Either way this is going to be a tight race.

So whats everyone's take on the referendum and which side do you support? Lets have a little discussion, British or not, everyone is welcome to have their own opinions Very Happy

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Sven Shieldmaker on Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:01 pm

Leave before you get stuck bailing out a bunch of failed socialism economies. (i.e. Greece)
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Re: BREXIT

Post by Justin076 on Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:45 pm

The BBC just projected that the leave side will come out on top. I'm for leaving the EU, this is a good day for the UK, its about time that they leave the failed project called the European Union.

PS: The pound sterling has fallen 10% in just about 4 hours. It is going to be quite the day.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Tristar Majestica on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:03 am

It is now official: The UK will leave the EU with British Prime Minister David Cameron to step down.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Francisco II on Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:20 am

My country is part of the P.I.G.S. countries, and despite the economic failure of the European Union I do think that the European Union was born with good purposes, it shouldn't be like it is now, where all member countries mantain national sovereignety, it should be like U.S.A., but unluckily this project won't work for us for our history, we have always been fragmented, and when some political organization tried to unite us, things went revolutions and violence. My country itself was fragmented until the 800's and was one of the last national kingdom to birth in europe. I think that the failure of the European Union is to be found on this, if all member countries would mantain less jurisdiction and would let EU administrate all things like u.s.a. it would work even better than the States.
I don't blame the UK, when the ship is diving, peoples have to abandon ship. I do hope a bright future for Europe, but days by days things go worst...
I suggest you to see this vid: It's a bit different now, but it gave me a clearer picture.
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Re: BREXIT

Post by Majorian on Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:38 pm

You do not necessarily want Europe to be like the USA, think long and hard before you make that choice. Here there are many groups who resent being dictated to from the federal government Washington DC. I think it would be even harder in Europe where nations have long histories going back hundreds or even thousands of years. Yes we are a superpower and prosperous, but there are also downsides, in a way it is a trade off between power/prosperity and independence. There is something to be said for having a smaller, less powerful but quiet country that is completely in charge of its own affairs.

Anyway it was a choice for the British alone they have voted to leave. There will be some market turbulence and the UK will have to negotiate trade deals all over again but Ithink they will be okay in the long run.
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Re: BREXIT

Post by Justin076 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:04 pm

Couldn't imagine Europe being like the USA. You have hundreds of different cultures, languages, ideologies, values, different political systems and some dark histories. In no way possible would it ever be possible to unite Europe under one rule. Thats what basically caused UK to leave, you have Brussels which is making outrageous laws for an entire continent of different cultures, values, e.t.c. If the EU stuck to its pure purpose of a trade union instead of getting out of hand with making immigration laws for 28 different countries and other things, maybe last nights result may have been different.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Hunter on Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:41 pm

I would have voted to stay, but I respect the Brits who voted leave, but it was mostly older people, and the Scots and Irish are planning to leave, but I mean it's just been 24 hours or less there is still time to recover but it is a major shift in history, and could be the end of the EU. North Ireland wants to rejoin the Republic of Ireland and Scotland wants another refurendum, the pound dropped by 15% to 1.37.

But yes there are key issues that need to be adressed and is a wake up call to the rest of the EU

The world economy is taking a hit, lowest since the 2008 economic recession if I am correct
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Re: BREXIT

Post by lannan13 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:39 pm

The stocks are really feeling the burn today.
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Re: BREXIT

Post by Tristar Majestica on Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:42 pm

DeustchReich wrote:I would have voted to stay, but I respect the Brits who voted leave, but it was mostly older people, and the Scots and Irish are planning to leave, but I mean it's just been 24 hours or less there is still time to recover but it is a major shift in history, and could be the end of the EU. North Ireland wants to rejoin the Republic of Ireland and Scotland wants another refurendum, the pound dropped by 15% to 1.37.

But yes there are key issues that need to be adressed and is a wake up call to the rest of the EU

The world economy is taking a hit, lowest since the 2008 economic recession if I am correct

The Scottish First Minister confirmed that Scotland would push for a 2nd Independence Vote. Tough times ahead...
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Re: BREXIT

Post by Justin076 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:56 pm

Scotland wouldn't survive without the UK..... hope the new push for another referendum doesn't materialize.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Slaventia on Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:29 pm

Justin076 wrote:Scotland wouldn't survive without the UK..... hope the new push for another referendum doesn't materialize.
Scotland can survive on Brussel's, not London's dime.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by kalev60 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:45 pm

I'm totally pro UK leaving, I'm very pro Northern Ireland joining Ireland and Scots getting their country back if/when they so wish. On economics I think we all will truly see what leaving means after 5-10 years from now.
On EU- the only times Europe really pulled together has been when faced with outside aggressor- this time around they totally blew their change for any solidarity with their BS politics, or when a great leaders rose and united either by force or clever politics- no great leaders seen anywhere, at least not in Europe.  Maybe in the world there is like 2 or 3 great leaders like Putin, Dalai Lama and and maybe even Obama and wannabe greats like Trump offering people some larger PC-free visions and inspiring the masses.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Justin076 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:11 pm

Very good point Kalev60^^

Anyone think Brexit will cause a Domino effect? (Other euroskeptic countries holding referendums)

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Majorian on Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:44 pm

Run for the exits, last one out has to pay for Greece! What a Face
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Re: BREXIT

Post by Gills on Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:56 pm

Justin076 wrote:Scotland wouldn't survive without the UK..... hope the new push for another referendum doesn't materialize.

Who knows? I thought the UK wouldn't leave, so I'm not putting much stock in my predictions right now. The end of the EU would be a consignment to obscurity for us.

That being said France is now the world's 5th largest economy after overtaking the UK, so hooray for that I guess! It would be interesting to see how Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales will do. I'm predicting that Northern Ireland will probably join the rest of Ireland.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Justin076 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:21 pm

Gills wrote:
Justin076 wrote:Scotland wouldn't survive without the UK..... hope the new push for another referendum doesn't materialize.

Who knows? I thought the UK wouldn't leave, so I'm not putting much stock in my predictions right now. The end of the EU would be a consignment to obscurity for us.

That being said France is now the world's 5th largest economy after overtaking the UK, so hooray for that I guess! It would be interesting to see how Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales will do. I'm predicting that Northern Ireland will probably join the rest of Ireland.

I think Scotland is most likely going to hold a referendum, as back in 2014 one of the main arguments to remain in the UK was to remain part of the EU. Now they're being forced out anyway, so therefore I can definitely see an independent Scotland in the future, however I want a united UK:D

As for northern Ireland, the vote was only 55.8% to 44.2%, and I'd say a large number of those remain supporters were remain supporters for the sole purpose of open borders with Ireland, if the UK and Ireland can come to an open border agreement or such, I can't see why Northern Ireland would leave the UK. But who knows............ its a crazy world.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Gills on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:21 pm

Frankly, I'm not exactly happy about this turn of the events, due to the budget cuts in research and environment and not counting the present and future economic woe, but I'm not English and it's their country to run. I feel sorry for the students, and the immigrants in view of the rise of hate crimes, and the intellectuals viewing the surge in anti-intellectualism in England, but oh well.

I don't envy whoever is in charge of announcing Article 50, since they will be a lightning rod for the incoming troubles, as well as have to review and create trade deals from a weakened position, decide which regulations to keep, change or drop and other administrative tasks. The fact that the UK has no strong plan and leader in this situation is pretty bad.

In the event they manage to do this, we can let the Calais Jungle pass to them (the irony about the whole hatred of immigrants is that the UK wasn't part of the Schengen area, so leaving didn't change anything on that front) and the UE can wash their hands of them. Or they can backtrack on the referendum with all it's risks and either become like Norway and join the trade area without any political say (and thus no longer have them veto environmental, economic, financial reforms and regulations) or have them become a member again without their special status. Either way, I personally don't think leaving was a good move.

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Re: BREXIT

Post by kalev60 on Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:25 pm

I'm totally surprised at EU-members reactions though, including some of the leaders of my own country reactions. The butthurt over UK leaving has reduced them to vengeful animals.
No-one gives two fucks about democratic decision making and the fact that UK is still a member of Nato and one of the biggest military force in Europe. I'd stay very respectful about UK if I wanted good military co-op with them in the future and that will certainly be needed in Europe, but I'm not a politician, so what do I know?Very Happy

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Re: BREXIT

Post by Gills on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:27 pm

kalev60 wrote:I'm totally surprised at EU-members reactions though, including some of the leaders of my own country reactions. The butthurt over UK leaving has reduced them to vengeful animals.
No-one gives two fucks about democratic decision making and the fact that UK is still a member of Nato and one of the biggest military force in Europe. I'd stay very respectful about UK if I wanted good military co-op with them in the future and that will certainly be needed in Europe, but I'm not a politician, so what do I know?Very Happy

Eh, it depends on the politician. I think that Juncker is trying to angle for a soft Brexit, whereas Merkel is just making sure that there will be a united front. It's really the French which are happy about this, but the UK did use their veto power the most in the EU, so they're not too sad to see the back of them. Also, considering that it's not so much about the EU, so much as that being harsh on them should hopefully lower the support of far-right parties such as the FN in France.  In this case the UK was just daft enough to blunder themselves into a situation where they're a perfect example.

I'm sad that the UK shot themselves in the foot, but quite frankly with events such as Nigel Farage's speech to the EU, I think the EU should show the UK (or England now) that they're not as important as they think they are. They put everyone's economy in turmoil and there have to be consequences for this irresponsibility, because quite frankly after listening to their "news", I'm tired of their arrogance.

The best solution is for the UK to return to the EU, without political influence, unless someone swallows their pride and allows a reversal of the referendum.

Short version: Relationships are a too way street and apart from tactical considerations and losing a market, there is little to redeem them. There really isn't, sadly enough. It's hard to be the reasonable, especially if you're the only one. I'm surprised politicians haven't outright said "fuck them and let the UK sink", because I think the EU has been almost saintly in their patience.

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