Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

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In the General Election, who would you support?

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Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Justin076 on Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:07 pm

Greetings all,

Well with Donald Trump being the presumptive nominee for the Republican Party, and Hillary Clinton being the so called "Presumptive Nominee" for the Democratic Party(She doesn't have enough pledged delegates to clinch). It looks like this might be the showdown of the century. So this is just a simple opinion poll. In the event that Hillary gets the democratic nomination at the convention, who would you support? Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?

NOTE: I know this could become a pretty heated topic so let's remain mature and respectful. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. So a little debate is alright but let's not get too out of hand:D




Last edited by Justin076 on Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Gills on Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:04 pm

I don't really like either of them and I'm not an American, so I'm mainly interested in their views on the environment. Hillary's is almost non-existent, while Trump says that climate change is a hoax and a conspiracy or something.

So Hillary, there's my choice. God help us all.

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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by lannan13 on Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:58 pm

Generally, I dislike them both, but come election, I'll probably vote Hilary.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Sven Shieldmaker on Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:37 pm

Trump is a blowhard and Hillary is a career criminal, so its a sorry choice.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Little Lloyd on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:33 am

Hillary left our people to die, she lies about everything and is a criminal. Trump is freaky, kind of has ideas like Hitler. But even though I hate both, a no vote orba third party vote is a vote for Hillary, if she gets office this country is screwed, how many more young men will she let die?
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Aokiji Kuzan on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:47 am

Well America is no longer democratic country but an oligarch country ruled by few rich and business individuals on monopoly in mostly 2 major parties so you got somewhat no choice there can't blame for just 2 choices. I'm not American, Mexican or Muslim nor living in US but I dislike Trump. For Hillary I can't say much since I'm no citizen don't know much on her. World popularity Trump just looks the baddest vulgar, rude, racist and etc guy popping up on tv then people cheering him making America more bad. Just my foreign opinion. Good luck tho on your elections.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Red King on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:47 am

Making the choice between those two candidates is indeed terrible. Who knows if Sanders jumps in as an independent candidate, though I am not sure whether he would stand a chance with his somewhat radical ideas in a general election.
Regarding economic and foreign policies, I as a German definetely support Trump, or at least what he has said so far. Since Clinton is a puppet of her national and international (for example Saudi-Arabia) donors, I would feel very uncomfortable with someone like her in charge. Someone who is a self-proclaimed enemy of Russia and a supporter of TTIP (I wonder why).
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Hunter on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:06 am

They both suck, but I would rather have Hillary than trumph I do hope berny runs as a independent #Feelthebern
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by lannan13 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:37 am

Why I support Clinton over Trump.

Contention 1: Deportation

We all currently know that Donald J Trump's greatest and most famous piece of his platform is the wall and deportation of all illegal immigrants in the US. The issue with that is that it's not as easy as he makes it seem, not to mention that it will hurt the US so bad that it pushes us into an economic Depression, not just a recession.

The key thing we have to look at here is the illegal immigrants jobs as well how they affect the everyday American. Former Chairman of the Federal Reserve showed that illegal immigrants, mainly from Latin America, had accounted for a sixth of the US economic growth from 2000-2007. [1] While in the US, illegal immigrants have been supporting their families back home while in the past year, illegal immgirants had sent home $63 billion. [2] This shows that they are not as "heartless" or "lazzy" as my opponent claims they are as it is impoosible to send that much home if you're living on welfare. The CBO reports that if we are to allow illegal immigrants work in the US, they will raise wages in the long hall, but deportation will lead to a decrease of our wages by 0.6%, which despite not sounding like much, is still a significant loss. [3] We have to also look and see that Trump himself has also flip flopped on this issue from going hard line to saying that this is a possiblity within days [13]. What kind of President do we expect to have when they are teeter tottering on an issue that can destroy our nation?

With this being my final point I will review the final costs of deportation. If we were to deport ALL illegal immigrants in the US our nation's GDP would drop by $1.6 TRILLION! [4] This is a huge effect on the economy that would sink the US into another Great Depression not to mention all fo the other impacts that I have brought up this round. There is no logical reason why the US should deport all illegal immigrants, but should instead grant amnesty to those here which Clinton not only supports, but will expand on increasing the US economy while Trump will plunge the world into a second Great Depression.

Contention 2: Clinton the Unifier.

Many times Trump has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He has attacked all non-white, evangelical Americans. Trump's own rhetoric has caused riots in the US. Many times his own words has sparked riots like in Chicago and many places in California where people don't appriate this Fascist Rhetoric where he constantly gives hate speeches against others and then goes to blame the problems he has been causing on Bernie supporters where he fails to understand the implacations of his own actions [5]. Studies have shown that Trump's own hate speech has created a level of harm where people are more violitile against others.

“In a 2005 experiment, […] passers-by were more likely to help an apparently injured person if that person was wearing a football jersey which supported the same team as them than an opposing team. However, when their shared identity as football fans was made salient instead, supporters of both teams were likely to be helped, significantly more so than a person wearing a plain shirt.[6]"

Here we can see the effects, though on a simplistic scale, that such an action can effect people and it shows how people are less able to help out minorities when subjected to this kind of speech while under the normal case where they would easily help anyone. Trump is tearing this country appart and something needs to be done before it's too late.

On top of this, Trump has tried to introduce a program where we survey Muslim neighborhoods and mosques. This is an extremely flawed plan. John Horgan, the Director of the Center for Terrorism and Security Studies at UMass pointed out a great deal of the flaws in this plan. He showed that there is a great deal of vagueness that is involved in this plan like "How do we define concerning behavior?" "How do others and how should they recognize it?[7]" These are some key issues with the plan that are very vague making it impossible to actually enforce or even to do so without people being wrongly accused and improsioned. This breads distrust and zero co-operation which was a key flaw in Trump's Plan. Hilary will not do such an autrocity where our own Constitutional Rights are being intruded on just to follow through with some sort of xenophobic plan.

Contention 3: Domestic

This is a very broad topic here, so I'll only be able to lightly touch some of the topics here. For Starters, when we actually compare the two campaigns, we can see that Hilary is more open with her campaign than Trump. If you look at both campaign websites, you'll only see that Trump lists and defends 7 political issues, while Hilary supports over 35 political issues [8][9].

Hilary has openly stated that she supports a minimum wage increase to $12 per hour, but Trump, on the other hand, has purposed things that will destroy the economy as well as the well being of every American. Several times this election he has changed his stance from opposing the raising of the minimum wage, to wanting it raised, to his newest stance where Trump wants to abolish the minimum wage [10]. This would completely harm many of the average Americans as many of the costal states would have high minimum wages, many of the Midwestern states would have a mimium wage that is decreased which would harm the well being of every single American as many would be unable to afford many of the rising prices that would occur with this as their incomes shrank.

The next key issue is abortion. Hilary Clinton has been a great supporter of women's rights, but Trump on the other hand, has said some terrible things on the matter. Trump had stated that women who recieve abortions should be punished. This was an outrage that someone who is running or even going to be President, would even consider. This is a clear violation of female rights as the SCOTUS has ruled Abortion to be Constitutionally legal. Within 3 hours of his statement, Trump changed his stance on it, not once, not twice, but three times [11]. This is something that shouldn't be over looked as he simply did this as damage control to hide his own motives and this isn't someone we should have as President.

Hilary Clinton has supported clear common sense gun control, but Trump on the other hand, has flip flopped many times on this issue. Trump had stated that he had supported the second amendment, but he has also stated that he supported Assault Rifle Ban, magazine bans, and longer back ground checks. He has also stated the exact opposite [12]. Can we really support a President who flip flops so many times on these issues that are extremely important to our nation? Especially when these flip flops are within months of each other, others over time.

Sources
1. Alan Greenspan, PhD, former Chairman of the US Federal Reserve, stated in his Apr. 30, 2009 testimony before the US Senate Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees, and Border Security
2. (http://www.thedialogue.org/agenda/programs/remittances/press/)
3. (http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/06/01/does-immigration-suppress-wages-its-not-so-simple/)
4. (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/the-conservative-case-against-enforcing-immigration-laws/387004/)
5. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-anti-trump-riots-1465229170)
6. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 31: 443–453.
7. (https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/may/13/boston-cve/)
8. (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions)
9. (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/)
10. ( http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/19/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrong-elizabeth-warren-lied-saying-he/)
11. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/politics/donald-trump-abortion-positions/)
12. (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/apr/12/donald-trump/donald-trump-fully-flip-flops-lately-opposes-ban-a/)
13. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trump-immigration-flip-flop-220272)
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Justin076 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:27 pm

In my honest opinion, Hillary Clinton is a career criminal. She will say anything to get elected. Big corporations have bought her out. She is not for the people, she's for the big companies who want fatter wallets. Just look at this video, she's the biggest, fattest liar you will ever lay your eyes on.


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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

Post by Hunter on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:51 pm

Justin076 wrote:In my honest opinion, Hillary Clinton is a career criminal. She will say anything to get elected. Big corporations have bought her out. She is not for the people, she's for the big companies who want fatter wallets. Just look at this video, she's the biggest, fattest liar you will ever lay your eyes on.

Yeah she is, and she is a bad canidate, but I would rather have a pepper then a ghost pepper, i really hope bernie runs as an independent
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Re: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton

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